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cahnAnd in this post:
-luzula is going to tell us about the Jacobites and the '45!
-I'm going to finish reading Nancy Goldstone's book about Maria Theresia and (some of) her children Maria Christina, Maria Carolina, and Marie Antoinette, In the Shadow of the Empress, andselenak is going to tell us all the things wrong with the last four chapters (spoiler: in the first twenty chapters there have been many, MANY things wrong)!
-mildred_of_midgard is going to tell us about Charles XII of Sweden and the Great Northern War
(seriously, how did I get so lucky to have all these people Telling Me Things, this is AWESOME)
-oh, and also there will be Yuletide signups :D
-
luzula is going to tell us about the Jacobites and the '45!-I'm going to finish reading Nancy Goldstone's book about Maria Theresia and (some of) her children Maria Christina, Maria Carolina, and Marie Antoinette, In the Shadow of the Empress, and
selenak is going to tell us all the things wrong with the last four chapters (spoiler: in the first twenty chapters there have been many, MANY things wrong)!-
mildred_of_midgard is going to tell us about Charles XII of Sweden and the Great Northern War(seriously, how did I get so lucky to have all these people Telling Me Things, this is AWESOME)
-oh, and also there will be Yuletide signups :D
Re: The Great Northern War: Overview
Date: 2021-11-01 09:56 pm (UTC)Only possible because we have over two years of context! I wouldn't have wanted to try this even a year ago.
while Charles himself was sorely underestimated as a teen at the start, Swedish reputation for warrior awesomeness was actually still high in Europe from the preceding century
This is very true! When the alliance was being formed, the idea among the other allies was that Russian soldiers would make good cannon fodder. No one took them seriously yet (and with good reason, although Peter the Great's tremendous personal energy turned things around faster than anyone realized).
Stanislas Leczyinski, in addition to being Charles' luckless puppet king, was also Louis XV.' father-in-law, so the French should, in theory, have had a vested interest in keeping him in power, and should have sent military aid once Charles had left the country.
Well, this is conflating Stanislas' two reigns. Charles left the country in 1708, when Louis XV hadn't even been born yet (1710). When Stanislas was Louis' father-in-law (starting in 1725) and they should have sent (more) military aid was during the War of the Polish Succession (starting in 1733). But Poland was far away, France was more interested in the Rhineland and northern Italy, and as far as intervention in Poland was concerned, France concentrated on the diplomatic side, trying to get the much closer principalities of Sweden and the Ottoman Empire to intervene against Austria, but in vain. And so Stanislas lost the same throne for the second time.
Émilie died in Lorraine. *sob*
Sob. :(
And thank you for drawing the connections for
LOL. I also can see why you want me to read a proper biography of the man.
I do, I do! But don't use one of your precious Stabi slots; I've ordered a physical copy, which will arrive at some point.
(That's not Pölnitz' "Sex life of August the Strong", err, I mean, "Galant Saxony", which has been on my to read list for a while.)
Read this one too!
Lastly, and to get back to Peter: I think one key difference between them, coolness or lack of same aside, was that Peter had ideas for Russia that went beyond war, though of course some of them needed war as means to an end.
Yes, agreed. Charles was extremely focused on winning his war without losing any territory. Had he pulled an MT and conceded some territory and tried to get it back later, maybe things would have turned out differently. But trying to fight all your enemies for two decades without a breather is hard, both to pull off a victory and to get anything else done.
Whereas I haven't heard of Charles being interested in (and good at) any other aspect of being a King than military glory.
Charles XII would like to point out that unlike Peter the Great, he had less incentive to worry about domestic affairs, since he actually inherited a modern country in good shape. His father (Charles XI) was like a kinder, gentler FW: interested in peace so he could build up a well-administered kingdom with an efficient army and well-stocked treasury to leave his son. But minus all the crazy and the abuse.
Fritz: Fame for wars or for domestic affairs? Por qué no los dos? :P
The Great Northern War and the Spanish Succession: 1708-1709
Date: 2021-11-03 09:43 pm (UTC)In 1708, when Charles leaves Poland, Louis XIV is in the middle of the War of the Spanish Succession, and it's not going well. Had he wanted to get militarily involved in the Great Northern War, he would not have been in a position to do so, for:
1704: Loses the battle of Blenheim to Marlborough.
1706: Loses the battle of Ramillies to Marlborough.
1708: Loses the battle of Oudenarde to Marlborough.
1708: Loses the siege of Lille to Marlborough, opening the way to Paris for the Allies.
1709: Has to withdraw his troops from Spain, leaving Philip V to fend for himself.
1709: Loses the battle of Malplaquet to Marlborough, but through the strategic victory, at least manages to keep Paris from being sacked and to eventually demand better peace terms.
1709 is when the Allies start getting so punch drunk that they start demanding Louis make war on his grandson Philip V in Spain so that MT's dad future Charles VI can be Charles III of Spain. Louis' refusal to do that is what brings on the battle of Malplaquet. Which is fought just two months after Peter the Great ends Charles' invasion of Russia at Poltava.
Remember, the Great Frost of 1708-1709 plays a role in why Louis, in early 1709, decides to explain himself to his starving subjects for once and justify the decision to continue fighting, and, at the same time, the Great Frost plays a role in why Charles' army is so decimated over in Russia. There's a whole lot of important stuff happening at the same time.
In another post, I'll talk in more detail about how several of Charles' decisions were affected by the War of the Spanish Succession.
Re: The Great Northern War and the Spanish Succession: 1708-1709
Date: 2021-11-05 05:05 am (UTC)