Wow. So Eva's refusing to move out of the house, and her late husband's brother) are ganging up on her!
Ugh, something got cut off there. I think I meant to write "Oriane and George (her late husband's brother)," and then I decided George needed a proper introduction/reminder, and I went off to do that.
Speaking off proper introductions, cahn, it occurs to me I should say that Eva Merthen was James' common law wife. She was Finnish, they met when he was occupying Finland with a Russian army in the early 1740s, and they're supposed to have had several illegitimate but acknowledged children together. Of which I know exactly 0 names, which is too bad because liriaen thinks she's descended from one of them!
Fascinating, and wow, several discoveries here. I do think, Mildred, that you are thus the first person to solidly discover, in writing, that those two different branches of the Keith family were in social contact beyond "lived in Berlin/Potsdam at the same time", two were in Fritz' current day favour, one was a friend from his youth".
Very very dimly, I think I recall we came across at least one source before which claimed there was some sort of argument between James and George, not not what it was about, and at the time dismissed it because no other source had the Keith brothers arguing. However, if George and Eva hated each other, this could very well be the reason for some altercation at the very least. (I mean, if George claims he's seen her James' signature before, that would indicate that whatever argument there was didn't mean the brothers didn't visit each other, so I'm assuming it was all painted smiles between George and Eva in James' life time with at least one bust up that did cause some argument, not not a finite one.)
My instinct is to sympathize with Eva, too, for the same reasons you give, and if she signed in James' name, it could well have been in the course of managing his household and having him not at hand to do it - as an active soldier, this situation probably arose more than one, and if he knew she was doing it, it would be the equvivalent of a husband giving his wife his credit card to use (a few decades ago). As for the will itself: on the one hand, making Eva his heir would make sense given she was his common law wife and mother of his children, and also presumably George wasn't exactly lacking in cash. (BTW, why didn't James marry her? That would have ensured her a legal claim to his property, no ifs, no buts.) Otoh, maybe James was just one of those guys who thinks they live forever and/or can't be bothered to get around to making a proper will, and if Eva didn't want to be left penniless, she had to forge one? Since she couldn't count on George's good will?
Possible other contemporaries to check: I seem to recall Boswell mentions George's "Turkish ward" was someone, and not the only one, he took over from James' household when James died, that she'd been a girl James saved when in Russian employ? I can't recall what if anything Boswell wrote about Eva, though. Anyway, the impression I had from Boswell's notes on the Keiths was that George had a deserved reputation for being generous and clan chief like responsible and was proving it by taking care of James' servants and the Turkish lady. If he notably did not take care of Eva (& kids), that is an odd contradiction which would seem to indicate really bad blad between Eva and George.
The editor of Andrew Mitchell's papers is a big James Keith fan, and attached an entire section just about the Keith brothers (mostly James) to Mitchell's memoirs, written by himself, but he also thought In Disguise Ogglethorpe who was with James when he died was really a Scottish servant, and that James lived and died a stern bachelor, manly and chaste, so I don't it to be enlightening on this point...
Fascinating, and wow, several discoveries here. I do think, Mildred, that you are thus the first person to solidly discover, in writing, that those two different branches of the Keith family were in social contact beyond "lived in Berlin/Potsdam at the same time", two were in Fritz' current day favour, one was a friend from his youth".
Other people have claimed it, but never demonstrated it convincingly! Archival research is greeeaat. :D
Very very dimly, I think I recall we came across at least one source before which claimed there was some sort of argument between James and George, not not what it was about, and at the time dismissed it because no other source had the Keith brothers arguing.
Huhh, I don't remember this at *all*. We now have reason to believe it might be true, though!
My instinct is to sympathize with Eva, too, for the same reasons you give
I'm a *little* less sympathetic to her refusal to move out now that I know it's the governor's mansion she's refusing to leave, but, even so, she may just be protesting something very unfair.
it could well have been in the course of managing his household and having him not at hand to do it - as an active soldier, this situation probably arose more than one,
Ah, that does make sense. I like that explanation.
and if he knew she was doing it, it would be the equvivalent of a husband giving his wife his credit card to use (a few decades ago)
Ha. Just one decade ago I was giving my fiancee my card, before she moved to the US. ;) At one point when I was trying to clear up a hold that had been placed on the card, and I went in person to do it, the bank employee was like, "Sooo...you're trying to withdraw money from Brazil, but you're here? *head tilt*" "My fiancee has the card." "Ah. Well, that stays between us. As far as I'm concerned, you're in Brazil." Very helpful employee, not like George Keith at all. ;)
If he notably did not take care of Eva (& kids), that is an odd contradiction which would seem to indicate really bad blad between Eva and George.
I wouldn't say odd at all; you just have a functional family, as we've discussed. ;) I was telling my wife about this drama last night, and we had this exchange:
Me: "You know how it goes when someone dies and the family immediately disintegrates into feuding and everyone has to take sides."
Her: "Oh, yeah. *flashbacks*"
Me: "Well, it was happening in the 18th century. It happened in the 18th century BCE, too."
Her: "Actually-"
Me: "It was happening 40,000 years ago in the savannahs of Africa."
Her: "Exactly."
Since one of the things George, Eva, and Oriane are fighting over is specifically Eva's willingness to take care of the domestics, it does not surprise me that George has a powerful grudge against his sister-in-law and wants to take over the servants. I suspect even responsible Scottish clan chiefs were prone to family feuds. ;)
Otoh, maybe James was just one of those guys who thinks they live forever and/or can't be bothered to get around to making a proper will, and if Eva didn't want to be left penniless, she had to forge one? Since she couldn't count on George's good will?
Maybe. I feel like it was normal to make a will before going off to war--it was mandatory even in my grandfather's day--and I feel like I've run into examples of it being normal in the 18th century, but I'm blanking on anything specific and may be misremembering. He may have died intestate and Eva did what she felt she had to do.
he also thought In Disguise Ogglethorpe who was with James when he died was really a Scottish servant, and that James lived and died a stern bachelor, manly and chaste, so I don't it to be enlightening on this point...
Hahaha! The manly chaste Scots meet the manly chaste Prussians!
Maybe if Liriaen ever gets her health problems under enough control to pick up the James Keith genealogy project, we can find more details out.
Ugh. So apparently this happened to my mom's family as well when my grandmother died, ugh. (My dad's family, as you may remember, had already splintered so badly by the time my grandfather and step-grandmother died that my dad expected nothing and got nothing, so there weren't really any fights at that point...)
When my mother-in-law died, my sister-in-law said how appreciative and grateful she was that everyone was being really reasonable about dividing up her stuff. At the time I thought it was a bit weird (why wouldn't we be reasonable?) but now that I know more (this was also before I learned about the drama in my mom's family), I guess maybe she was right to be grateful...
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Re: Keith family drama
Ugh, something got cut off there. I think I meant to write "Oriane and George (her late husband's brother)," and then I decided George needed a proper introduction/reminder, and I went off to do that.
Speaking off proper introductions,
Re: Keith family drama
Very very dimly, I think I recall we came across at least one source before which claimed there was some sort of argument between James and George, not not what it was about, and at the time dismissed it because no other source had the Keith brothers arguing. However, if George and Eva hated each other, this could very well be the reason for some altercation at the very least. (I mean, if George claims he's seen her James' signature before, that would indicate that whatever argument there was didn't mean the brothers didn't visit each other, so I'm assuming it was all painted smiles between George and Eva in James' life time with at least one bust up that did cause some argument, not not a finite one.)
My instinct is to sympathize with Eva, too, for the same reasons you give, and if she signed in James' name, it could well have been in the course of managing his household and having him not at hand to do it - as an active soldier, this situation probably arose more than one, and if he knew she was doing it, it would be the equvivalent of a husband giving his wife his credit card to use (a few decades ago). As for the will itself: on the one hand, making Eva his heir would make sense given she was his common law wife and mother of his children, and also presumably George wasn't exactly lacking in cash. (BTW, why didn't James marry her? That would have ensured her a legal claim to his property, no ifs, no buts.) Otoh, maybe James was just one of those guys who thinks they live forever and/or can't be bothered to get around to making a proper will, and if Eva didn't want to be left penniless, she had to forge one? Since she couldn't count on George's good will?
Possible other contemporaries to check: I seem to recall Boswell mentions George's "Turkish ward" was someone, and not the only one, he took over from James' household when James died, that she'd been a girl James saved when in Russian employ? I can't recall what if anything Boswell wrote about Eva, though. Anyway, the impression I had from Boswell's notes on the Keiths was that George had a deserved reputation for being generous and clan chief like responsible and was proving it by taking care of James' servants and the Turkish lady. If he notably did not take care of Eva (& kids), that is an odd contradiction which would seem to indicate really bad blad between Eva and George.
The editor of Andrew Mitchell's papers is a big James Keith fan, and attached an entire section just about the Keith brothers (mostly James) to Mitchell's memoirs, written by himself, but he also thought In Disguise Ogglethorpe who was with James when he died was really a Scottish servant, and that James lived and died a stern bachelor, manly and chaste, so I don't it to be enlightening on this point...
Re: Keith family drama
Other people have claimed it, but never demonstrated it convincingly! Archival research is greeeaat. :D
Very very dimly, I think I recall we came across at least one source before which claimed there was some sort of argument between James and George, not not what it was about, and at the time dismissed it because no other source had the Keith brothers arguing.
Huhh, I don't remember this at *all*. We now have reason to believe it might be true, though!
My instinct is to sympathize with Eva, too, for the same reasons you give
I'm a *little* less sympathetic to her refusal to move out now that I know it's the governor's mansion she's refusing to leave, but, even so, she may just be protesting something very unfair.
it could well have been in the course of managing his household and having him not at hand to do it - as an active soldier, this situation probably arose more than one,
Ah, that does make sense. I like that explanation.
and if he knew she was doing it, it would be the equvivalent of a husband giving his wife his credit card to use (a few decades ago)
Ha. Just one decade ago I was giving my fiancee my card, before she moved to the US. ;) At one point when I was trying to clear up a hold that had been placed on the card, and I went in person to do it, the bank employee was like, "Sooo...you're trying to withdraw money from Brazil, but you're here? *head tilt*" "My fiancee has the card." "Ah. Well, that stays between us. As far as I'm concerned, you're in Brazil." Very helpful employee, not like George Keith at all. ;)
If he notably did not take care of Eva (& kids), that is an odd contradiction which would seem to indicate really bad blad between Eva and George.
I wouldn't say odd at all; you just have a functional family, as we've discussed. ;) I was telling my wife about this drama last night, and we had this exchange:
Me: "You know how it goes when someone dies and the family immediately disintegrates into feuding and everyone has to take sides."
Her: "Oh, yeah. *flashbacks*"
Me: "Well, it was happening in the 18th century. It happened in the 18th century BCE, too."
Her: "Actually-"
Me: "It was happening 40,000 years ago in the savannahs of Africa."
Her: "Exactly."
Since one of the things George, Eva, and Oriane are fighting over is specifically Eva's willingness to take care of the domestics, it does not surprise me that George has a powerful grudge against his sister-in-law and wants to take over the servants. I suspect even responsible Scottish clan chiefs were prone to family feuds. ;)
Otoh, maybe James was just one of those guys who thinks they live forever and/or can't be bothered to get around to making a proper will, and if Eva didn't want to be left penniless, she had to forge one? Since she couldn't count on George's good will?
Maybe. I feel like it was normal to make a will before going off to war--it was mandatory even in my grandfather's day--and I feel like I've run into examples of it being normal in the 18th century, but I'm blanking on anything specific and may be misremembering. He may have died intestate and Eva did what she felt she had to do.
he also thought In Disguise Ogglethorpe who was with James when he died was really a Scottish servant, and that James lived and died a stern bachelor, manly and chaste, so I don't it to be enlightening on this point...
Hahaha! The manly chaste Scots meet the manly chaste Prussians!
Maybe if Liriaen ever gets her health problems under enough control to pick up the James Keith genealogy project, we can find more details out.
Re: Keith family drama
When my mother-in-law died, my sister-in-law said how appreciative and grateful she was that everyone was being really reasonable about dividing up her stuff. At the time I thought it was a bit weird (why wouldn't we be reasonable?) but now that I know more (this was also before I learned about the drama in my mom's family), I guess maybe she was right to be grateful...